Amanda Tan & Maya Ru on Radical Existence Through Art
Interview by Amanda Tan & Maya Ru
Artists Amanda Tan and Maya Ru first became friends while attending Columbia College. Amanda, an artist in the film industry, works primarily in art and costume, bringing the characters and sets we see on screen to life. Maya, the owner and creator of RuPink, a carefully crafted accessories line, produces intricate one of a kind pieces. Through independent projects and artistic collaborations, the two have grown into multifaceted artists. Below the friends talk living through world history, the reexamination of society, and the idea of radical existence.
Maya: Uhh… so, I brought weed. Did you want to partake or…?
Amanda: I mean, I’d be down. I also have food if you want some. I might eat a little during this cause I haven’t eaten anything yet.
Maya: *takes a hit*
Amanda: I like that you have a one-hitter. I haven’t seen that in a while.
Portrait of Maya by Amanda Tan.
Maya: Well I walk around my neighborhood when I smoke cause my landlord is weird about it even though there are other people that smoke in the building too. So I just take walks around the block and it would be a lil’ more inconspicuous if I had this on me cause she’s tryna keep it cute. Plus, it gives the white people less of a reason to look at me. They already look at me like I haven’t lived here the past ten years.
Amanda: Is Oak Park…
Maya: Oh yeah, it’s supposed to be super diverse, has this slogan of being super diverse like, “we love the gays, we love black people!” and on every block you’ll see a BLM sign.
Amanda: But…?
Maya: But, there’s also these suburban politics of “well even though you live two doors down, I don’t know you...”
Amanda: Ah, so very suburban…
Maya: It’s one of those things where they’ll smile at you like they’re literally watching your every move so you can’t necessarily blend in if you’re black or a POC, if you’re not blonde, if you’re fat, anything that’s different. They’re going to clock it and then they’re gonna scrutinize and then they’re gonna smile and wave because “we’re inclusive”…
Amanda: It’s that midwestern racism where the underlying racism is shielded under the midwestern niceness. It’s scarier.
Maya: Yeah! It’s respectability politics right? If I act really nice and harmless, you won’t notice me, but you still stick out anyway cause you don’t look like them. It’s weird, it’s definitely first world problems…
Amanda: Umm…. I mean… I don’t know. I feel like racism is a BIG problem.
Maya: Yeah definitely. Well you know, I’m not outwardly being called the N-word everyday.
Amanda: The bar is in hell.
Maya: Yeah, it’s real low.
Amanda: Like wow, it’s a good day not to be called a racial slur. It’s so sad.
Maya: Yeah, just expecting the worst from people constantly. It is what it is.
Amanda: So, what has life been like during quarantine?
Portrait of Amanda. Photo courtesy of Amanda Tan.
Maya: Life has been interesting. Corona doesn’t seem to exist in the suburbs, so nobody really wears a mask. We’ve had a farmer’s market for the past couple of weeks. I’ve been kind of freaking out because you see the news everyday with these politicians telling you to stay calm, cool, and collected, but the reality is just so much worse.
Amanda: It’s been so tricky to navigate because on one hand they’re opening up states, but the cases aren’t going down, but the news is also blaming young millennials? There are literally old people throwing fits at Walmart just because they don’t want to wear a mask.
Maya: Well that’s the thing, when they reopen, what did they expect people to do? We were all locked inside for months.They knew exactly what they were doing.
Amanda: What have you been up to, to keep sane?
Maya: I learned that I really do not do well just sitting at home not doing anything. It just seems as if time is passing me by, you get into this whole depressive episode.
Amanda: Oh, don’t even get me started on the depressive episodes.
Maya: Our body is literally going through the biggest traumatic event in our lives.
Amanda: I hate being a part of world history textbook content.
Maya: But I’ve been trying to be really proactive about my work. It took a while to get there.
Amanda: It’s hard! I’m surprised you could be productive at all. From March till May, it was some dark times for me, just cause of the uncertainty of everything. No job meant no income and I’m not American, so I don’t qualify for any relief aid. It kind of fucked me over with my current work permit too. And also… ugh, I kind of ended a relationship during quarantine.
Maya: FUCK. NO!
Amanda: Yeah… Really bad.
Maya: Messy?
Amanda: Really messy.
Maya: I’m so sorry to hear that.
Amanda: Thanks. So yeah just trying to keep busy during quarantine... I see people being so productive, making art, painting, doing this and that and I’m like… I’m sitting at home crying everyday from this breakup and also everything else…
Maya: I don’t blame you or anyone else for just taking time away to fucking exist and deal with the emotions, and try to figure out where the fuck we are in life because in a way, it’s kind of a nice little privilege to be able to do some art. I’ll be the first to admit that for myself.
Amanda: Being able to make art is a privilege in itself.
Maya: Yeah, and you’ve been able to step back and reflect on things and take a break from it all. Art can be a great outlet but if we’re making it just to make it, rather than to say something… if we’re just filling in time or forcing productivity… that’s not always the best kind of art. Not to put pressure on making art or anything like that.
Amanda: So you haven’t been making art during the quarantine?
Art courtesy of Maya Ru
Maya: Okay, so having said all of that… I’ve been working on this comic for a while. I finished the first chapter after working on it for a good year which I’m so fucking happy about. So now I’m starting chapter two and everything looks good. I’m really pleased with how everything’s going with the comic considering the circumstances. Like 2020 was going to be my year. I had a resolution list and everything, and then March came and I lost the will to do anything. The only thing that made me feel like a human, was me channeling the nervous energy and my anxiety into this comic, something tangible. So that’s what I mean to say, it’s a means of getting the anxiety out into your art. It could be good or bad work, it just makes you feel like you’re doing something.
Amanda: Just to feel something… I wasn’t doing jack shit to be honest. I was cooking a lot. I like cooking but if I have to do it for survival, I don’t like it anymore. It came to a point where I got so sick and tired of my cooking. I usually get food delivery a lot so it was really surprising that during the quarantine, I only allowed myself to get it two to three times. But besides that, I haven’t been doing much. How do you think the current social and political climate has affected your art or how you want to make art moving forward?
Maya: I find that social and political climates kind of always make their way into what I’m doing, regardless of my choice because we are people of color. All of our art is political which… is kind of a burden. But in that sense, we’re always privy to what people don’t notice because we’re queer artists too, which makes the lens that much clearer. I feel like I’ve always made political art, I will continue doing so. This wave of current events that are happening in the world, it’s been more exhausting.
Amanda: It’s extremely exhausting and sometimes I’m like “Amanda… you don’t get to be exhausted; this is not the time.” The fact that the uprisings are happening during Corona too…
Maya: Yeah, it’s almost like now you have to be twice as brave. Before, you just had to be brave to go outside and protest and not get your ass whooped by the police, but now you’ve got to protect yourself from a virus too?! The internet these days… People are getting real upset over everything online too. It can be a lot but I’m glad people are feeling more proactive and passionate about the BLM movement. I don’t know… there’s a lot of thoughts.
Amanda: There are a lot of thoughts. Lots of things to say for sure.
Maya: Yeah, and I don’t know how to really explain them which is why I’ve been gravitating towards doing the comic more. We talked about it before multiple times and I think I mentioned to you that it has a lot to do with race politics in the supernatural world. It’s way for me to decipher the “fuckery” of what’s going on in real life because this can’t be real…
“I find that social and political climates kind of always make their way into what I’m doing, regardless of my choice because we are people of color. All of our art is political which… is kind of a burden.”
Amanda: Maybe it’s cause I haven’t made art during quarantine, so a lot of my thoughts just come out… it’s hard to explain like what you said. You have your comic as your outlet. This is when I realized I don’t have a hobby anymore because I’ve become a cog in the capitalist machine. I was working full time, at least 60 hours a week on Empire, 12 to 14 hours a day, 5 days a week since last September until the lockdown. So I didn’t have a lot of free time to do my own shit and when I did have time, I slept. So when I suddenly had all this free time that I did not ask for, but appreciated in a way, it’s just like…. You’re just making money for The Man. Don’t get me wrong, I like having a steady job but also, the fact that I’m thankful to be paid minimum wage says a lot right here.
Maya: I hear you.
Amanda: Like are you serious? You’re happy you make minimum wage. That’s fucked up.
Maya: Happy you could make rent this month. Happy you could feed yourself.
Amanda: It should not be a privilege; it should be a right.
Maya: Yeah that’s surviving, not living.
Amanda: We get it mixed up, but that’s not our fault. I see a lot of people online sharing things and resources and it’s making me reevaluate everything, and really read between the lines of not just things with race but capitalism, our political system. Everything is just unravelling itself like an onion. I talk to people who are now averting their career towards activism and I find myself questioning if I really want to do film and TV. Like does it contribute to the world in a greater sense? Is it putting good in the world? Should I do something else? Cause you always feel like you could do more. But then I’m like no, I actually do really want to make films and do this, but there are better ways I could do it. Just thinking a lot about my place in this world.
Maya: Damn.
Amanda: I was doing this questionnaire with this magazine & they asked me about diversity and how my perception of it has changed since I first started working in the Film & TV industry and I was very honest.
Maya: Yeah, has it?
Amanda: First of all, it did not change mainly because I went into it knowing it was a white man’s world. Columbia? Film was the biggest department in the school, and it was so white. It was kind of the norm, you just expect it when you show up on set.
Maya: Right, not much has changed.
Amanda: But I do want to change that. Right before Empire, I freelanced with this company that does a lot of art department work where everyone except one person was white. And then I went to Empire and it was a whole different story, at least in the costume department. It was the most diverse department I’ve ever been a part of. The designer was a black queer woman and she’s older too. She told me this story of how she and her friend ran off to tour with a band when they were younger because she fell in love with a girl.
Maya: Oh my god.
Amanda: Yeah, it’s like damn she’s been around. You’re an older queer person. That’s very inspirational. It’s so much harder to be who they were back then.
Maya: She’s lived a full ass life. As a black and queer woman. Ugh, can’t wait for my turn.
Amanda: There were also more Asian people in this department than any others I’ve been on and when I say there’s more, I mean like okay, there’s five of us rather than one. There were black people in lead roles and I’ve never been a part of something like this coming from Columbia. So, I was shook. Seeing how I felt from that made me realize, damn I’ve been deprived of working around people who aren’t white. Just being in an inclusive space shook me to my core. We should try, no actually, we must think beyond the stories that have already been told. I don’t want to work on some coming of age film where it’s the same three white teens we’ve seen in two other recent Netflix movies about some awkward dork who fell in love with a cheerleader.
Maya: And don’t forget they’re quirky! He’s smart, she’s popular.
Amanda: I think that’s actually a movie. I Love Beth Cooper, did you ever watch that?
Maya: With Hayden Panettiere? Yeah, yeah.
Amanda: I’m just tired of the narrative of like three male roommates who want to make it in the world and they’re just boring white dudes. I get it, not everything has to be about race in terms of content.
Maya: But also, everything is because they’re making an active choice to have all white people in your cast. So yes, it’s about race.
Amanda: Is there anything you want to change or do more of for your art, your work?
Maya: I want to be able to feel free enough to do anything. I’ve been calling myself an interdisciplinary artist for a while now. I want to keep that flexibility and in doing so, it could give me more to explore about my race cause I want to do more work where I solidify what it means for me to be a Caribbean-American artist who’s also queer and out here. The Black alternative experience. I don’t know what else I can call myself.
Art courtesy of Amanda Tan
Amanda: There’s so much more we can call ourselves. I was in a screen printing class a while back and each project had a theme. I didn’t realize that a lot of the art I made from the class had something to do with my heritage. I screen printed a bowl of noodles, a specific dish from home, as one of my first projects cause I love noodles. In my painting class, I painted a repetition of a bowl of food and it was always food from my culture. I made a risograph zine for one of the projects and later on I realized too that a lot of what I put in there is very Malaysian. It wasn’t an intentional conscious choice, it’s just who I am. You’re so right that everything we do is political, about our race… cause it’s not something we can just drop. It’s not a mask!
Maya: I’m sorry it’s not a mask! I’m sorry I’m not Kim K!
Amanda: At Empire, one of my co-workers, who was this white guy, always tried to use chopsticks whenever we got Asian food at the office. So somebody else at work asked me how I felt about that and I was like I don’t know, I just want to eat. Then they asked me why I don’t use chopsticks like the white guy.
Maya: Excuse me?
Amanda: I just told them that first of all, I don’t have anything to prove. I don’t need to prove to you that I’m…of color. I’m already ethnic. Did you want me to pull out chopsticks from my hair?
Maya: YES. Thank you like, I got it. I’m good. Leave me alone. My god.
Amanda: My friend and I joke about this a lot. We like to jokingly say our existence is radical, who we are is radical. But we’ve said it so much at this point that we’re like wait…. Our existence on this earth is radical. Like what you said about walking in the suburbs, that’s radical to these suburban white people. I don’t remember how I got here but this is a good segue into my next question. Being a woman of color for me, and a Black woman for you, working in what we do, film/ TV/ fashion whatever, how does that feel?
Maya: Feels great. Feels right. As much as we bitch and moan about how many white people are in our fields, I wouldn’t be in any other place. I feel like this is my spot, this is where I feel comfortable, even surrounded by people whose jobs it seems is to make me feel uncomfortable. What about you?
“Our existence on this earth is radical.”
Amanda: It feels… lonely. I feel like I have an interpersonal battle with being an Asian woman here doing what I do. Especially in the Midwest, I don’t get to meet a lot of Asian people and when I do, it’s either I don’t really click with them or we’re just acquaintances. Like just because me and this person are both Asian doesn’t mean we’re going to instantly become besties. I’m from Malaysia so whenever I go home, I don’t have to think about this as much because everyone around me are people like me. We have different races too but we’re all Malaysian, it’s what I grew up around and when I got here, I got so used to being surrounded by people who weren’t like me. So it feels lonely here when I’m making my art sometimes. I’ve never worked in film back home before cause I came here for school so I’ve mostly been doing film here. I mean it also feels good because I know that what I provide and what I contribute to this industry is a different perspective than what we always see. I’m glad your answer was a lot more positive than mine.
Maya: Well… I guess I’ve had to deal with it… for a little while.
Amanda: It’s a struggle, a battle, and a blessing. We didn’t ask to be born in this flesh prison.
Maya: We’re just trying to figure it out.
Amanda: What does it feel like putting forth your vision into the world?
Maya: It feels amazing if it looks the way I hope it looks, right? When it works out, it’s pretty great. It gets scary.
Amanda: It’s definitely scary putting a piece of yourself out there.