How a Three Year Reflection Led Lewis Del Mar to Create a Timeless, Impressionist Album
Interview by Danny Miller & Max Harwood
Danny Miller and Max Harwood, better known as Lewis Del Mar, describe themselves as an “audiovisual partnership.” The pair released their self-titled debut album back in 2016 draped in a collage of wintery Rockaway imagery. Four years later, they are releasing their follow up LP, AUGUST, out appropriately, next month on FADER label. Amidst a global pandemic and national unrest, the album’s abstract vocals and visuals bring an odd sense of comfort to its listeners. They reflect the chaos, that Max experienced, infected by Corona back in March, and the revelation of truths we’ve all since experienced. While the initial inspiration for the album was generated back in 2017, the friends have found that the themes that originally challenged them are still very present in today’s world.
Below, Danny and Max talk the creation of AUGUST, weird silver linings, conceptual frameworks, Cy Twombly and Chef’s Table.
Danny by rubberband.
Max by rubberband.
Danny: Hello, Max.
Max: Here we’re interviewing each other. What's up, Danny?
Danny: This is our first time speaking today. I feel like usually we've spoken a little bit earlier than noon in the day, depending on what the day is.
Max: I've actually been starting my life, well, actually, I feel like I start my life around ten. But then I start like music related work around noon anyway.
Danny: I see. I've been starting my my life pretty early actually, cause I was surfing a bunch last week. So I was starting my life at like six am. But I think my normal life start time is like seven am. I like to be up when it's a little bit quiet. You know, I enjoy that moment.
Max: It's a nice moment. I wake up at like eight thirty, but I don't really do anything until ten it seems. Nothing in particular happens between eight thirty and ten. Like I'm up making coffee but like somehow making a drink from the coffee just takes an hour and a half, and not much else happens.
Danny: It does. It definitely be like that sometimes. Definitely.
Max: I actually got a reusable Chemex filter, which I'm pretty excited about.
Danny: Oh wow. That's crazy. That's nice. That's a sustainable move.
Max: It is!
Danny: I think the first thing that, you know, we were sort of curious to talk about to one another about is sort of our experiences, you know, making and releasing this album during the pandemic, is the truth is that you and I haven't really seen each other very much. And you know, both just because of social distancing and also the process in time in which this happened. So basically, we really finished our album the day before New York Lockdown. We finished the album in New York. And the Monday after we finished it, the city locked down for the first time.
Max: Yeah. I would say that we got, ultimately, we got really lucky that we had finished it when we did. I feel like if it happened like a month earlier, it would have derailed what was like already such a like a long, and drawn out process.
Danny: Yeah, exactly. So I think that was sort of like, you know, a bit of a sigh of relief. But then everything that's transpired since then has been so crazy. And I mean, I think the first thing basically that happened after we locked down was that you got really sick.
Max: We were trying to decide the order of the songs. And I was so sick, but… I hadn't come to terms with how sick I was. And I think that I was like kind of delusional. And I remember at one point, Danny, you were like, "I just feel like you need to..." It was one song. The difference of the order was one song.
Danny: It came down to one song.
Max: It was either going to go in the first third of the album, or the last third. And Danny was just like, "you just gotta trust me." And looking back on that moment, I feel like at least some of my perspective was like fever, dream, delusion, not being able to comprehend what was going on. Just like alone in my house. My girlfriend was staying in a different apartment. Like I was just like alone freaking out being, I mean, really sick.
Danny: Maybe the first question that we're really going to get to today is what was your journey from getting COVID? We've talked about this a couple of times. But I think now that we're fully over the hill, what was your journey from getting COVID, you know, until now, both physically and mentally?
Max: Yeah, I mean, I don't want to take up too much time, but I could summarize it by saying, in the beginning, I think that one of the things… there's two things that make it pretty intense and pretty scary. One, anything that affects your breathing is so fundamental to you. It's sort of like being alive but it's really scary. I think the other thing was sort of the uncertainty about it, and I think that's sort of what ended up making music videos and doing interviews and photo shoots and all this other stuff, so incredibly complicated was that there was such a lack of clear information, that I was just like, I was just scared.
Danny by rubberband.
I was scared to do stuff… I mean, once I started to get better, it didn't even totally make sense that I was still scared to do stuff. But it was sort of like, it was like a PTSD type of thing. And I remember I sent such an aggressive e-mail to Danny, but also our whole team being like, “I'm not doing anything. I'm not going to do these photo shoots. It's not safe.” I sort of felt like everybody was taking it, or wasn't taking it seriously enough that I really, really resented that. But I think in the end, there was also a part of me that was… it was just a weird, traumatizing experience in and of itself.
Danny: Yeah, absolutely. I think that we even talked about how while it was happening, just how multifaceted this thing is, which I think is giving everybody sort of a difficult time understanding and comprehending it, because the issues I mean, like any widespread or systemic issue, are happening on such an individual and personal level and then on such a huge mass scale that it's hard to comprehend that. And we were talking about how there were competing opinions in the political and administration level that were fucking everything up. But then that also trickled down to there being virtue discussions between friend groups about what was right and wrong, and how sort of that was a whole new, weird, complex territory to navigate.
And I think the other part of this is just the mental journey of all of this. I'd be curious to know what yours has sort of been from the beginning of it until now. I feel like mine has very much been, I guess sort of two things. One, sort of just trying to combat the isolation that I think everybody is going through. But then also two, this very strange feeling I have where, you know, several people that are really close to me have had their lives pretty devastated by this pandemic. And I think we're seeing on a national level, on a global level, that the pandemic is affecting disproportionately black and brown communities. And that seemed to be the case in my life, too, that a lot of the people I know that are most deeply affected by this, are black and brown people. And I think it just weighs so heavy on my heart, one, that my friends are experiencing things like that, but also that our government's response to it is so lackluster and seemingly willfully ignorant. And I have a deep sense of anger and sadness about those things.
“...it just weighs so heavy on my heart, one, that my friends are experiencing things like that, but also that our government’s response to it is so lackluster and seemingly, willfully ignorant. And I have a deep sense of anger and sadness about those things.”
And at the same time, you know, it's nice for the first time, the weather's nice in New York for the first time in a long time. We're putting out this album that's had some really interesting and fun moments behind its creation. And I think just measuring those small moments of personal joy amidst this, like really unprecedentedly shocking tragedy that our nation is going through and still can't seem to really process the reaches of. It's just such a strange space to be living and thinking about the world. And it's probably most more so than anything I can really remember in a long time forcing me to really think outside of myself. And I'm grateful to it for that, you know. Very much so.
Max: Yeah. There are a couple of weird silver linings for sure. You know, I do feel like, I had a similar experience, it sort of made me, it forced me to rethink some things about my life. There's the pandemic but there's also the incident of George Floyd being murdered by cops, which has also played into the whole reflection. But I think in terms of terms of operating under these limitations affect us. I mean, what do you think about “The Ceiling” video and that whole thing?
Danny: Yeah, I mean that set up some very interesting sort of limitations, and I feel like, our, M.O. has always been to embrace those things. I also credit you for that. I think we were all sort of sitting there kind of perplexed as to what we were going to do. And you were like we really got to lean into this. And we ended up making “The Ceiling” without ever seeing each other, projecting these videos. And then we took it one step further and we projected the videos all around New York City on these places that were influential in the albums’ making. And it ended up just being this really cool, totally exploratory creative process that I don't think we ever would have gotten under a different set of circumstances. And I really appreciate that. You know, any time I think that the creativity is explorative in nature and without a sort of like, tangible end goal, I really find myself most captivated and present during it.
Max by rubberband.
So I think that it's been a really interesting process of trying to navigate. I guess what I would just say is sort of like a new landscape. You know, I don't think that the landscape, frankly, is ever going to be the same. So I think that as artists, it's sort of our responsibility to lead the way in learning to adapt.
Max: Yeah, I really enjoy working with limitations. You know that about me in general. I feel like it totally leads you to things that you wouldn't have otherwise done. And it keeps you, I think maybe even more importantly, it keeps you from resting on what you would have just done otherwise. You know what I mean? Like, it's not even just about where it leads you. It prevents you, and you're like, "Ah fuck, I'm unable to literally do my go-to thing or my go-to thought process or my go-to whatever.” And so I think in that sense it's really good. In some ways I see it as a silver lining of the Corona virus, that it's like imposing sort of like new limitations on people that force you, in our case obviously make art, but just kind of do things differently or see things differently. And I think that's good. I feel that's an overall, usually a positive thing.
Danny: I think it's much needed. I had somebody say that there's this line in “Rosalie” that talks about living a life outside my mind, you know, and they were like that felt so relevant to the pandemic, you know? And they were like did you write that lyric with this time in mind? And I obviously couldn't have ever predicted this. And this song was written probably a year or two before this ever happened. But what I realized was that our country for a long time now has been, frankly the world, but very much so in American culture, has been pervaded by a larger sense of isolation, you know?
Max: Yeah.
Danny: And a lack of connectivity and sort of also a feeling that we're always on the precipice of a national crisis, you know? And so, I guess it was written with this time in mind. Because this time is frankly not so different than the way in which our world was headed. We were bound to meet this juncture at some point and have to reconsider our choices.
Max: Yeah, it exposed so many truths more so than it changed anything. It just kind of showed you what was really going on. And I think that's true for sure… It's funny because I say all these positive things, but it's definitely been challenging. There's been times where I have to completely rethink, like, you can't just play a show, like we were gonna play two shows in May and June and sort of celebrate those first single releases. And when we couldn't do that, it's like "OK, well, how do we replace that? What's going to be the new live?” And then we're coming up with all these crazy ways to try and play together over Zoom or pre-record stuff and make something new. And it's like, I appreciate that basically, if I think about “The Ceiling” video, the photo shoot, which we also used projections for, and recording live videos, COVID and limitations are three for three in terms of making us make cool art. But they are also three for three for it being a huge pain in my ass.
“...this time is frankly not so different than the way in which our world was headed. We were bound to meet this juncture at some point and have to reconsider our choices. ”
Danny: But we're here now and you and I are about to begin rehearsals next week for playing together and also will probably be the first time that we're in the room together, for an extended period of time. So, it seems like a good time to reflect on some of the inspiration that sort of led us here in light to the making of the album and that we're bringing into the rehearsal room with us. So, yeah. I wanted to start by asking you today about what the three inspiration points are that you brought to the album in the creative process or three memorable ones? There's probably too many to count overall.
Max: Yeah, it's funny because I actually had to think back because, you know, like the way we work, I'm already thinking about the next thing. And like the true honest points of inspiration for this album probably happened two years ago. Especially with how long we took. But I tried to think about it for real. And there's one artist that I've come back to so many times in just the Lewis Del Mar creative process. And it's this artist, her name is Sarah Sze. And she had this piece, she actually made a book, called “Triple Point.” And she does these sculptures that are these three-dimensional entities that move through space and are all using sound materials and mixed media. And in terms of my role in Lewis Del Mar, nothing has ever felt so close to how I visualize, not just like music, but particularly our music, in particular like what I'm doing from a production and also, you know, rhythm standpoint within this group. And I think that when I saw that piece, this one called Triple Point, it really made me think about the structure and shape of a lot of our songs, but particularly “Rosalie”, because I remember we had a very specific debate about what the arrangement of that song should be like. You remember that? We drew up like eight different possibilities for the structure of that. And I think the one that we landed on was sort of the most adventurous and linear version.
Triple Point by Sarah Sze
Danny: Or non-linear.
Max: Yeah. I mean, linear in the sense of starting one place, ending up somewhere different. I mean, in the sense of non-symmetrical, you know what I mean? Like a lot of songs are sort of like, verse, chorus, verse, chorus. It's very, very symmetrical. And I think the one that we landed on goes to this world, and then that world. And it's not necessarily following, I mean, maybe loosely, like a typical song structure. But I guess also the shapes of the rhythms throughout each section are also different enough that I just feel like it moves from point A to point B and each little stop along the way is something sort of completely different and like a small world in and of itself. And it always reminded me of Sarah Sze's work.
Danny: That's sick.
Max: If you're ever wondering what's going on in my brain trying to arrange songs or come up with drum parts, it's like a weird mixed media sculpture.
Danny: And so what's the next piece?
Max: The next one was the trusty, ASR-10, which is a sampler.
Danny: Oh yeah.
Max: I don't know when it was made. I think it was made in the 90s. Kanye was actually big into it for sure. It's like the counterpoint to the MPC-
Danny: He who shall not be named.
Max: Yeah, I know. It's too bad. I wish there was a better reference point for that one these days. But we've always tried to bring in a certain degree of sample energy to Lewis Del Mar. And I was really pleased that we're able to incorporate it on two songs, but I don't know if they'll be out when this is out. But eventually you guys will hear "Cold Turkey" and "Morning Rush" and both of those you can kind of tell, like the productions themselves definitely are a little bit different than the other ones. And it's because instead of leaning into more live instrumentation and more live drums, we leaned a lot harder into this analog sampler that we actually had to, when we first bought it, call the guy who sent it to us because it was missing the floppy disk that it needed to run the operating system. So we called this dude and had him mail us a floppy disk to even get it to work. And then spent like two weeks trying to figure out that. But anyway, long story short, the ASR-10 was a pivotal piece of gear that was incredibly cumbersome to use, but had some pretty sweet results in the end.
“If you’re ever wondering what’s going on in my brain trying to arrange songs or come up with drum parts, it’s like a weird mixed media sculpture. ”
Danny: And what's the last one?
Max: And then number three, I'll keep this one brief as well, was Chef's Table. I went through a phase deep in the middle of this process where I was watching a ton of Chef's Table and I just couldn't- I remember coming into the studio with you and Andrew and being like, "Guys, I took notes on an episode of Chef's Table last night. And we've got to think about some of these ideas," and you guys were like, "What are you talking about?"
Danny: Chef's Table has some big philosophical undertones, you know?
Max: Yeah. Well, here's the thing. And this is the only real point that is mildly relevant to this conversation, was that I realized at some point that making food and making dishes like that is sort of similar to music in the sense that it's such an art form, but there is such a practicality to it. And I think we ran up against that. I mean, I think all artists do. But we ran up against it in LP two in the sense of, like, you're trying to say something or you have a concept and you're really trying to honor the conceptual framework that you built. But at the same time, it's a song, and people have to want to listen to it, and they have to want to put it on, and they have to you know… that has to fit a certain context and you can decide all those things. But generally, there's a practical function to music. It's the same thing with with these dishes where they can make the most beautiful things and they can have really unique concepts behind the dish. But someone is going to eat it, and does it taste good as well? I guess it's the old form and function kind of debate that's in design. Where the chair has to look cool but also be comfortable. I guess it's similar to that.
Danny: Yeah. There's a line. I feel like every artist draws their own line with where that is. But yeah, I certainly see the overlap.
Max: And I think we had a little bit of that specific debate with this record, too.
Danny: I think what I see as being the through line there is just that, so much of the creation of those people in those shows is built around ethos. And I think a lot of that happens in art, and especially music, when you're trying to create music with other people because you sort of have to very clearly outline those things so that everyone is leaning into them, you know? But I think that's all really interesting. I haven't watched enough Chef's Table. I've only watched like the first season I think. The first season is fire.
Max: But what do you got? There's a lot that went into [the album]. Breaking it down to three items is probably not totally sufficient, but...
Summer Madness by Cy Twombly
Danny: It's tough. I feel like what I wanted to do was sort of show how we develop the arc and the entire concept behind AUGUST and the title and all those things. So I chose three things that I felt really guided that journey. And the first thing that I chose was this painting by Cy Twombly that I saw in 2017 when we were on the road, in the Pompidou in Paris. And it was the first time I'd seen his work in person. And he has a painting called Summer Madness. And I was just really struck on a visceral level by all of his work. But that piece really started me on a journey into more impressionistic art. And it sort of was the springboard into me thinking about Lewis Del Mar making more impressionistic music that wasn't as rigid and bare bones as the first album was. So that was a huge launching off point, just sort of stylistically. We had a print of it in the studio with us as we finished the album.
Max: I was going to say that painting, we also brought it around a lot of different places.
Danny: Yeah, I like carried it with me. I found a printing of a real poster for the original show that it was shown at. That was also very serendipitous. The show was from the year we were born. I think he painted it the year we were born. And I was thinking about more ambient music. I know we listened to Steve Reich during this process. And then the second item that I brought was this book Another Country by James Baldwin. And I'm a huge James Baldwin fan. I have a James Baldwin shrine in my apartment, as you know. I found this book when I was living in the Lower East Side. And that summer when we first came back from being on the road. And I just saw these parallels to my life and sort of this weird sort of inner tangling and intersecting of lives and past lives sort of in the summer in New York. And there was this line that actually we had pulled that we thought for a while was going to start the album. And I wanted to read it from that book. It's, "...and the summer came, the New York summer, which is like no summer anywhere. The heat and the noise began their destruction of nerves and sanity and private lives and love affairs. It was a city without an oasis run entirely in so far, at least as human perception could tell, for money. And its citizens seem to have lost entirely any sense of their right to renew themselves."
And I just remember being so struck by this and around that time was when Simon and I and Bellamy got jumped downtown. And I think it was probably the first night I did ketamine and it was just like a real, I don't know, just sort of like awakening to this moment that there was like some sort of idea and confluence of things that was happening around that summer time and energies. And that's a whole other bag. But that was sort of something that became cemented for us. And that we were like, you know, this idea of dystopian summertime as it existed in my life is something that we can sort of begin plumbing the depths of. And then the third thing I brought was this trip to L.A. that finished the album and really saved some of this process from nosediving as we explored that concept to every end. And I think you and I were both feeling like there had to be another angle to anchor this more heavy summer time stuff. And I feel like going to L.A., we finished the album with our friend from high school, Daniel Ullman, and-
Max: Goes by Casper now, a producer.
Danny: And I think that there was just like a real moment of solidarity in that, that we needed. And it translated our view into thinking beyond the confines of that time. And as a writer, I feel like I was able to really begin reflecting in a different way on those moments and on the time that we'd arrived at since then. And I feel like it gave the album the arc that it needed. So I really put that trip in L.A. as the last piece of the puzzle, because I think it completed this concept of AUGUST, which is sort of this fever pitch, wildly, storied summertime that sort of fades into this point of reflection and clarity. And so I was really just grateful for that, because one, it was a lot of fun, the whole trip was a lot of fun, and finishing the album was fun. But I think it also really gave the album the sort of counterpoint that it needed to that summertime.
Max: Yeah, I totally agree. I remember those conversations we had about it, too. I feel like you were still trying to write about that summer, the initial summer, which was actually 2017. But so much time had passed since then, you were like, “How do I write about this?” So through talking about it, we just sort of ended up being like, you write about the reflection of where that moment has spit you out and where you are now. And I think that it definitely added another dimension to the album in the end, which I think makes it feel complete.
Danny: Yeah, I think so too. It certainly was where we felt completed.
Max: You know, it just occurred to me, I don't know why I never thought about this, but we essentially started that album August 2017. Then essentially recorded it and mostly finished it in August of 2019. And now we're releasing it in August 2020.
Danny: That's it! Just another detail.
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